Wrestling Advisory Committee Minutes of March 7, 2016
Members present –John Brown, Derek Greening, and Phillip Limb, Eric DeVenney, Jesse Whitson, Marty Hauck and Dustin Martin. Not present James Lake. Special Guests: Lou Mazzocco (Jefferson City H.S.) & Casey Vokolek (Oak Park HS.) for discussion on the Trackwrestling AutoSeed Program. MSHSAA Staff in attendance – Greg Stahl and Karian Cook.
Stahl welcomed everyone and thanked the committee for the important job they do and the role they play in helping make the MSHSAA wrestling program stronger and better for the organization. He went on to explain the importance of having the advisory committee and the part they play in improving wrestling for the MSHSAA. Stahl went on to introduce members of the Advisory Committee. He next introduced other special guests Lou Mazzocco (Jefferson City HS), and Casey Vokolek as TrackWrestling Auto Seed Program advisors.
Stahl went through the 2015 minutes and the motions that went to the board and then he explained the Board actions.
Stahl asked for approval of the minutes from the March 9, 2015 meeting and Board actions.
Motion to approve by Phil Limb and Seconded by: Jesse Whitson.
Motion passed by unanimously 7-0.
Stahl then gave a report of the State Wrestling Championship. He said attendance was about 22,000 which is up from last year. He said that he believe this is a special event because of all of the work, planning, behind the scenes efforts as well as the number of people that are involved with pulling off the event. We also had the great advantage of no Mizzou basketball game the night before. Having the opportunity to get in the arena earlier in the day helped in getting all set-up and especially the internet to our live Trackwrestling program at each scoring table. Stahl also mentioned the gate passes for team managers and he told the members that he felt there was less abuse of the gate passes because small children and adults who obviously not student managers was not permitted to enter by the gate workers.
This year there was only 1 disqualified wrestler due to a skin condition which was amazing considering it was a 3 day tournament. The Trackwrestling program again ran smoothly and was well received for the expediency of bracket scoring.
One student was ejected for flagrant misconduct for biting which obviously garnered a lot of attention from opposing coaches and spectators. There was also an ejection from a parent/fan because of throwing a water bottle from the stands to the event level and hitting a coach in the head when his son lost in a tight match. MSHSAA has followed up with the school who are taking action against the parent/fan. Once again there was damage done to the arena’s wall and damage to 20 chairs in the arena. There will be new measures put in place for 2017 to try to eliminate the damage to the arena.
There were five new faces this year for State Mat Officials. A number of highly recommended officials by coaches were not available for state for a number of reasons. With the new ones coming on board Stahl said that he was pleased with their performance. He is concerned about the future of the mat officials because of coaches not giving them much of a chance at getting experience and growth without getting a brow beating by the coaches. He says that communication skills by both coaches and officials are of upmost importance in learning and growing. Overall, Stahl said he was pleased with how the finals ran with attention towards the new award ceremonies platform and the continued use of special effects that adds to the atmosphere of the state finals.
New Business:
TrackWrestling
The overall discussion of the Trackwrestling system and the use of the auto seeding program was discussed. A conference call to Justin Tritz of Trackwrestling was held to better clarify the current point system used in the Auto Seed Program and the impact on the on the current MSHSAA seeding criteria for the district tournaments. Tritz explained and answered questions that the Committee members asked and he also gave his opinion on the inter-workings of his system. After questions and explanations were taken care of there was a motion made.
Greening made motion and seconded by Whitson to have Trackwrestling Autoseed Program only assign point values to common opponent criteria when generating point values in the preliminary seeding report. (Vote 7-0).
MSHSAA Wrestling Manual
The MSHSAA Wrestling Manual currently recommends the use of three mats at the district tournament with the need to contact the MSHSAA office for consideration of using more than three mats. Agenda item was submitted and discussed to allow four mats at districts without advance approval from the MSHSAA office. (Section 4-B-4 page 13). There was discussion about the approval of MSHSAA and the reminder of a 45 minute break mandated between matches for all wrestlers. Committee felt like the need to contact the MSHSAA office for permission to use four mats at district provides a good safety net for communicating the potential issues of maintain the 45 minute break between matches that is mandated by NFHS rule. No Action Taken.
Having the release date of District entries to Head Coaches on Wednesday prior to the start of Districts (Section 4-C-4a page 14 of the Manual) was the next agenda item from Dusting Martin(via Brown) from his District. In the discussion there was opposition to moving the release of district entries this early due to the last minute changes that are coaches are currently afforded when district entries are not revealed until the opening of the seeding of each weight class. Committee members felt this could create issues in cases of untimely injuries, eligibility issues, etc. No Action Taken.
Whitson presented the potential need to recognize and grant a seeded position to a wrestler that had a higher state place finish the previous year than that of another wrestler who is considered for the same seed as addressed in Appendix B for District Seeding Criteria. The committee discussed potential issues of a high state placer at light weight class the previous year who is 3-4 weights higher the following year being granted a seed over another returning state placer who is at the same weight class as they were the previous year. No Action Taken.
In relation to Seeding Criteria (Appendix B), Stahl asked the Committee their opinion on whether or not an out of state transfer student, who is a returning state placer from another state, should be recognized and allowed to be granted a seed at district using the “returning state placer” criteria. Committee agreed on the need to clarify the language in the manual addressing a situation of this nature to avoid misunderstandings in the future.
Motion made by Hauck and Seconded by Limb to recommend to add clarification to district seeding criteria in regards to a returning state placer or district champion or runner up as follows:
b. A returning (MSHSAA) state champion or (MSHSAA) state place finisher in any weight; from any classification.
c. A returning (MSHSAA) district champion or (MSHSAA) runner-up at the same or adjacent weight class; from any classification.
(Vote 7-0).
NFHS Business
Stahl next told the Committee that he is on the NFHS Wrestling Committee. When he attends these meetings he feels that it is important that our Missouri coaches complete the NFHS Rules Questionnaire to be able to give feedback in helping him to make on future rules changes representing our state and Section V. He state that he has sent an email MSHSAA Broadcast to all wrestling coaches and wrestling official twice prior to the questionnaire deadline in an effort to get feedback. It is important that the advisory committee member explain to their colleagues the importance of complete the NFHS Rules Questionnaire. No Action Taken.
Stahl then explained to the Committee the difference between a MSHSAA manual change, MSHSAA by-law change and an NFHS rule change. He stated the importance of the committee to know and share with other coaches the different processes/procedures that have to be followed depending on whether a proposed change is tied to the wrestling manual, a by-law or NFHS rule. If it is a wrestling rule change that is being proposed the proposal must go through NFHS proposed rule change process and the proposal must be submitted by March 1 each year to be considered by the NFHS Wrestling Rules Committee. He spoke of other states and the ideas and exchanges they have at the NFHS Wrestling Rules Committee meeting and the differences it can make. No Action Taken.
Wrestling Classification Breaks were next brought up for discussion through agenda items submitted by James Lake(via Mueller and Hickey). Stahl explained about Wrestling Classification Breaks and the diagram in the MSHSAA Handbook. He explained how currently the sport of Wresting uses equal enrollment breaks for determining classifications. The proposed classification breaks submitted via Hickey proposed using classification breaks similar to that of football by which Class 4 would be the 48 largest schools, Class 2-3 would have equally assigned number of schools and Class 1 would consist of the higher number of schools. This proposal was made with submitted data that showed the total number of entered wresters at each district in each classification. The data showed that Class 1 has the lowest number of total district entries and suggested that the proposed change in classification breaks would result in more of a balanced number of entries in each classification. Some committee members shared that some of this issue of unbalance in number of district entries at each Class has come as the result from the petition to go to four classes. Stahl also shared that nationally there has been a trend showing a decline an decline in the overall number of participants in the sport of Wrestling nationally as well as an overall decline in the number of participants in Wrestling is our state. These factors also contribute to the imbalance of overall total entered wrestlers per each Class. Some concerns were shared that with each approaching reclassification and two year cycle that the committee receives proposals for changing the procedure for determining classification breaks. A question was posed: Does this have more to do with who are bubble teams and anticipate having to move up a class. There was also discussion that the discrepancy in total number of district entries in each classification is worth continued discussion and should continue to be looked at in the future, especially if we continue to see ‘byes” in the state tournament brackets due to lack of entries at a weight class in districts. Whitson shared that he believe regardless of “class” that participation numbers and total number of district entries in each class will always be a moving target from year to year and that there is not a “perfect” classification breaks system. DeVenney asked the committee about the possibility of a sub-committee to look at the current classification breaks system. There was not a strong interest in the formation of a subcommittee. No Action Taken.
By-Law 3.28 regarding Contest Limitations was discussed next. There was two separate agenda items proposed, both of which would impact current contest limitations. The first proposal was to eliminate by-law 3.26.1 – which is limits a wrestler to 50 matches in a season and follow up with a revision to by-law 3.28 that would allow for 9 multi dual events (tris/quads) and 6 tournaments OR 12-14 “dual” meets and 6 tournaments. This item was submitted by James Lake(via Sumner). Most agreed they were happy with the current Contest Limitations as well as the limit of 50 matches in season, excluding forfeits. No Action Taken.
The second agenda item relative to Contest Limitations was submitted by James Lake(via Ott). This item was to propose a reduction in the number of total matches in a season from 50 to 40. Committee members did discuss the current number of matches that wrestlers that are able to get in during the season and there was back and forth discussion on whether the permitted number is too much for high school wrestlers. There was a discussion on the comparison of the number of matches that high school wrestlers are getting in comparison to collegiate wrestlers. Committee members resolved that they did not see a necessity for a change at this time. No Action Taken.
James Lake submitted the next item for the committee which related to by-law 2.1.1. Lake proposed the restriction of an out of state student participating for a MSHSAA member school. Stahl explained that this item was tied not only to a MSHSAA By-law, which the committee cannot change, but also explained that this is a discussion relative to “all sports” and even more specifically a discussion relative to the enrollment of students by member schools who have school policy or procedure the allowing tuition paying students. No Action Taken.
The addition of Girls Wrestling as a sport was next discussed and Stahl explained how this request came about. There was initial interest from the Head Wrestling Coach at MMA to start a petition to add Girls Wrestling after he had conducted a self-organized survey of some wrestling coaches in the state. Dr. Urhahn encouraged this coach to submit this topic first to the Wrestling Advisory Committee in an effort to secure ideas, feedback and general committee interest on whether or not this would be a topic to pursue even though girls are currently allowed to participate in wrestling as a co-gender sport. There was discussion on the pros and cons on this. One downside would be the fact that if Girls Wrestling were started, under current by-laws it would be an “emerging sport” which would require at least 50 schools to be registered in the sport for two consecutive years and it at least three MSHSAA board districts before there would be postseason opportunities for female participants. The committee discussed that it would be gamble on whether or not there would ever be enough schools with Girls Wrestling to offer postseason opportunities. Whitson suggested tabling this to get more input from the wrestling coaches and potential girl athletes. Stahl stated that tabling the topic simply postpones the continued discussion and also shared that this is topic that will require a lot of pre-planning as well as voting by the MSHSAA membership on Annual Ballots if it were to get enough support to be voted on. Greening made motion and seconded by DeVenney to have all member schools surveyed in regards to their interest in the addition of Girls Wrestling as a sport recognized and under the jurisdiction of the MSHSAA. (Vote 7-0).
State Tournament
The order of awards at the State Championship was discussed next. Derek Greening proposed that awarding medals to state placers at the end of the last weight class (285lbs) rather than after each weight class throughout the finals would be beneficial in keeping fans/spectators in attendance for all awards presentations. He explained that there is a huge vacancy in the arena at the end and limited number of fans for the ending weight classes. There was some discussion that the coaches, fans and families would not like having to wait until the end of all finals to receive awards, especially when they had large distances to travel. No Action Taken.
Whitson asked the Committee about the possibility of seeding the State Tournament. He said he understands the difficulty and the length of time but wanted to put the idea on the table. Stahl chimed in about the difficulties and how hard it would be to keep all the intricacies straight and determining if it was done fairly, especially in relation to the number of instances in which there would be no common opponents between many wrestlers, etc. Stahl also asked the committee members how many “Coaches Votes” they had just in determining a seed at the district tournaments. He followed that with the speculation of how many coaches votes you have for a state seed. Do we really want a coaches vote determining a state seed? No Action Taken.
Conducting a ceremonial handshake for 3rd/5th place wrestlers prior to the matches at the state tournament was brought forth by Whitson(via Campbell). There was really no interest in pursuing this due to the current time frame that these medal matches are currently on in relation to the completion of the round, break down of facility for state finals and the start time of state finals all potentially being impacted. No Action Taken.
Stahl brought up the SE Tunnel Stairway at Mizzou Arena and the future mandates of the continued use of the area. He again stated that year after year damage to this area of the arena keeps occurring and it is each schools obligation to prevent these issues by having control on monitoring the behaviors of their wrestlers. Tearing up chairs and punching holes in walls is not in good character or sportsmanship and reflects badly on the MSHSAA. Due to the number of years that this damage to the facility has taken place and due to the lack of coaches following the request to stay with an emotion wrestler, the SE tunnel stairway will be blocked off and there will not be any access granted to wrestlers to use this area in either direction(up or down). No Action Taken.
Stahl brought up the State Bracket Rotations (A,B,C) and proposed that a review of the bracket rotation be conducted just to ensure balance of placement of district medalist into the state tournament bracket rotations. There are several combinations used in determining the placement of district medalist and it was brought to the attention of the MSHSAA office that two adjustments could be made to two of the rotations to ensure even more balance in the brackets in regards to the draw/placement of district medalist from different districts. The Committee reviewed and talked about the bracket rotations and agreed that it would be worthy of taking some time to review the current bracket rotations.
Martin made motion and seconded by Hauck to recommend the use of a sub-committee to review the state bracket rotations in order to check and confirm balance and equal distribution in relation to district replacement. Sub-committee (Greg Stahl, Harvey Richards, Phil Limb, Derek Greening, Eric DeVenney, Marty Hauck, Lou Mozzocco) (Vote 7-0).
Weight Certification
Stahl next touched on weight certification and the mandatory entry of weights from weigh-ins in Trackwrestling. He next showed an example of a weight management plan and how the mandatory actual weight entry this season affected some other code settings in the OPC that resulted in the revising of a wrestler’s lowest eligible wrestling weight upon the January 15th date of the two pound growth allowance. He reviewed with the committee the 2016 OPC issues due to code settings in Trackwrestling versus previous interpretations from the MSHSAA office as related to using your minimum weight along with a two pound growth allowance or a 1-2 lbs consecutive days weight allowance to make weight at a lighter weight class than what a wrestlers weight plan permits. He shared with the committee that in order for the OPC to continue to allow wrestlers to use any weight allowance to make weight and participate at a lower weight class that we would have to continue with code settings in the OPC that recalculates a wrestler’s lowest eligible wrestling weight based on what their lowest scratch weigh-in has been during the season up to and including January 14th. No Action Taken.
Limb via Hubbard asked the Committee to consider a date change on the 2lb growth allowance. As it is in the Wrestling Manual - Starting with January 15th, a 2-pound growth allowance shall be added to each weight class. NOTE: There will be NO additional growth allowance granted between the District Tournament and the State Tournament. They suggested since the January 15 date is not a consistent day of the week to have it on the Saturday of week 28 of the MSHSAA calendar. There was minimal talk of this. Motion made Limb to recommend using Saturday of Week 28 of MSHSAA standardized calendar as the start of the 2 pound growth allowance. No Second. Motion fails.
Miscellaneous
The new feature on the MSHSAA website that permits officials to upload a photo id on their MSHSAA personal information page for ratings and evaluations was introduced and covered by Stahl. This feature was actually recommended an approved by the Wrestling Advisory Committee in 2015 but was just recently formatted to the website recently due to several different work orders relative to the website that were being addressed prior to being able to get to the Officials photo feature. This is a great implementation to help many coaches with identifying the correct official when completing evaluations/ratings.
No Action Taken.
Outgoing Committee Members
This year we have two outgoing members, Phillip Limb and Derek Greening. Stahl handed out certificates and thanked them for their service to the committee and recognition for their outstanding service to the Wrestling Advisory Committee.
Open Agenda
We had three open agenda items. The first one was from Dustin Martin.
This was a proposal to require all coaches to enter their dual results on to Trackwrestling the same day of competition. Comments were shared by committee members on how difficult this requirement would be to oversee and keep coaches accountable when not following through with the requirement. No Action Taken.
The second open agenda item is from Martin and proposed that all Tournament hosts be required to use Trackwrestling as their tournament software. The reason for this proposal is due to the burden it creates for coaches to manually go into Trackwrestling and post their own wrestler’s match results at the conclusion of tournaments not using Trackwrestling to administer the tournament. Committee members discussed the difficulty of mandating the use Trackwrestling of all regular season events. No Action Taken.
The last open agenda item is from David Nugent – Hallsville. He was requesting that coaches be permitted a set number of contact days outside (weekly or monthly) of the season during the school year. The current system creates an uneven playing field for development of athletes and fosters one of two things. The first is a pay to play system. Athletes of financial means can pay to train in private clubs. Thus, rather than a system that encourages grass roots development, athletes have to be farmed out. In the process, athletes are subjected to undue influence. Coaches should not have to worry about their kids being recruited. What is the logic of telling professional educators and coaches that they cannot perform the job they are hired to do for the majority of the year? Rather, if an athlete wants to participate in the given sport they have to go to outside the school system.
The second point is that the system rewards cheating. Simply put, many coaches totally disregard contact rules and coach their kids outside of the season during the school year. They do this in plain sight. Attend any spring freestyle tournament and this is apparent. Unless there is enforcement of a rule then there is really no point in having it. Under current system by following the rules for contact, he feels he is knowingly putting his team at a competitive disadvantage because the other coaches continue to work with their kids and disregarding the rule. Stahl explained that this is an all sports by-law and the Athletic Directors Advisory Committee would have to be the group to have changes made to this particular by-law. Stahl went on to say it was worth investigating further. No Action Taken.
Meeting was adjourned at 4:20 p.m.